Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
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Time to slam dunk Pussy cat of FFI, again:
Pussy Cat wrote:
The very fact that there was no hamza in the Classical Arabic of the Koran debunks your statement. It had to be added so to fit the -later-
Arabic Qira'ah. So... NO... Arabic wasn't invented somewhere down the seventh heaven. It has a historical context, mainly Aramaic. See?
Qira'ah itself has been borrowed from Syriac, not the other way around.
What an ignorant bum
How come there was no hamzah and the Quran is full of hamzas?
even the word Quran, you dumb, has a hamzah, this is how it should be written:
قرءان
Thumbnail, click to enlarge.
Another slam, hey
And, here is an image from my software Access Quran showing the total number of the letter Hamzah in the Quran to be : 2691
Thumbnail, click to enlarge.
And here is an example from the Quran showing a clear Arabic word that can never exist without the Hamzah:
2:228 والمطلقات يتربصن بانفسهن ثلاثه قروء ولا يحل لهن ان يكتمن ما خلق الله في ارحامهن ان كن يؤمن بالله واليوم الاخر وبعولتهن احق بردهن في ذلك ان ارادوا اصلاحا ولهن مثل الذي عليهن بالمعروف وللرجال عليهن درجه والله عزيز حكيم And the divorced women should wait for three periods; and it is not lawful for them that they conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the last day. And their husbands have right to take them back in that period if they want reconciliation. And for them (the wives) is similar rights to what is expected of them. And for the men, they have a degree over them, and Allah is Mighty, Wise. [Al Quran ; 2:228]
Status: Age: 76 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 614
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Time to slam dunk Pussy cat of FFI, again:
Pussy Cat wrote:
The very fact that there was no hamza in the Classical Arabic of the Koran debunks your statement. It had to be added so to fit the -later-
Arabic Qira'ah. So... NO... Arabic wasn't invented somewhere down the seventh heaven. It has a historical context, mainly Aramaic. See?
Qira'ah itself has been borrowed from Syriac, not the other way around.
What an ignorant bum
How come there was no hamzah and the Quran is full of hamzas?
even the word Quran, you dumb, has a hamzah, this is how it should be written:
قرءان
Thumbnail, click to enlarge.
Another slam, hey
And, here is an image from my software Access Quran showing the total number of the letter Hamzah in the Quran to be : 2691
Thumbnail, click to enlarge.
And here is an example from the Quran showing a clear Arabic word that can never exist without the Hamzah:
2:228 والمطلقات يتربصن بانفسهن ثلاثه قروء ولا يحل لهن ان يكتمن ما خلق الله في ارحامهن ان كن يؤمن بالله واليوم الاخر وبعولتهن احق بردهن في ذلك ان ارادوا اصلاحا ولهن مثل الذي عليهن بالمعروف وللرجال عليهن درجه والله عزيز حكيم And the divorced women should wait for three periods; and it is not lawful for them that they conceal what Allah has created in their wombs if they believe in Allah and the last day. And their husbands have right to take them back in that period if they want reconciliation. And for them (the wives) is similar rights to what is expected of them. And for the men, they have a degree over them, and Allah is Mighty, Wise. [Al Quran ; 2:228]
-> See dumby, قروء , i.e. periods
And this should take us to slam dunk #78
# 78
These guys are amazing, Ahmed.
Well said and well slam dunked! Keep
Salaams
BMZ
Posted:
Sat 06 Mar, 2010 11:59 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam all
Time for a new slam. The issue in hand is how many times the word Month appeared in the Quran, but before we start counting, we must know well that we are only going to count THE SINGULAR form of the word, this makes sense of course because what we say is this:
The Quran used the word month 12 times, i.e. 12 months, therefore counting the plural or the dual form cannot be valid, however I will still bring the verses where the plural and the dual forms are used just for the record and not for counting them
Mordegast wrote:
Regarding Ahmed's monthly miracle:
First of all, I did not claim it to be a miracle, rather something very impressive. Also any noun being with the definite article Al or not, or preceded by a device or not, must have the same form of being plural or dual or singular, therefore any specific form of the word with or without the Al, or preceded by a device or not, will be grouped under one group:
It would have been better for you to check it yourself instead of blindly following some ignorant jerks for the assured outcome of making a complete fool of yourself. You can use my software (download from my site) to help you out looking smart.
Mordegast wrote:
2 for the dual form شهرين
A- The dual form: شهرين , Shahrayn, i.e. Two months
Appeared 2 times (should NOT be counted because it is not singular):
1 ?????????????????????¢??
وَمَا كَانَ لِمُؤْمِنٍ أَن يَقْتُلَ مُؤْمِنًا إِلاَّ خَطَئًا وَمَن قَتَلَ مُؤْمِنًا خَطَئًا فَتَحْرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ مُّؤْمِنَةٍ وَدِيَةٌ مُّسَلَّمَةٌ إِلَى أَهْلِهِ إِلاَّ أَن يَصَّدَّقُواْ فَإِن كَانَ مِن قَوْمٍ عَدُوٍّ لَّكُمْ وَهُوَ مْؤْمِنٌ فَتَحْرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ مُّؤْمِنَةٍ وَإِن كَانَ مِن قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُمْ مِّيثَاقٌ فَدِيَةٌ مُّسَلَّمَةٌ إِلَى أَهْلِهِ وَتَحْرِيرُ رَقَبَةٍ مُّؤْمِنَةً فَمَن لَّمْ يَجِدْ فَصِيَامُ شَهْرَيْنِ مُتَتَابِعَيْنِ تَوْبَةً مِّنَ اللّهِ وَكَانَ اللّهُ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا (92) And it is not for a believer to kill a believer except by mistake. And whoever kills a believer by mistake, then freeing of a believing slave, and compensation should be delivered to his family except that they remit it for charity. And if he was from a people enemy to you and he was a believer, then freeing of a believing slave. And if he was from a people who have with you a treaty, then compensation should be delivered to his family and freeing of a believing slave. And whoever cannot find, then fasting for two consecutive months, seeking acceptance of repentance from Allah. And indeed, ever is Allah Knowing, Wise. [Al Quran ; 4:92]
2 ?????????????????????¢??
فَمَنْ لَمْ يَجِدْ فَصِيَامُ شَهْرَيْنِ مُتَتَابِعَيْنِ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ يَتَمَاسَّا ۖ فَمَنْ لَمْ يَسْتَطِعْ فَإِطْعَامُ سِتِّينَ مِسْكِينًا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ لِتُؤْمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ ۚ وَتِلْكَ حُدُودُ اللَّهِ ۗ وَلِلْكَافِرِينَ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ (4) And whoever does not find (a slave), then the fasting for two consecutive months before they touch each other; and whoever is not able (to fast), then the feeding of sixty needy persons. That is for you to believe in Allah and His messenger, and those are the limits of Allah. And for unbelievers is a painful torture. [Al Quran ; 58:4]
THE ABOVE 2 OCCURRENCES SHOULD NOT BE COUNTED
But isn?????????????????????¢??t this another impressing point that the word شهرين , Shahrayn, i.e. TWO months appeared TWO times in the Quran.
Mordegast wrote:
اشهر the indefinite plural gives 5 results
and الأشهر the definite plural gives 1 result
B- The plural forms: اشهر , Ashhur, i.e. Months الأشهر , Al-Ashhur, i.e. The Months الشهور , Al-Shuhur, i.e. The Months
Appeared 7 times (should NOT be counted because it is not singular):
1-
الْحَجُّ أَشْهُرٌ مَّعْلُومَاتٌ فَمَن فَرَضَ فِيهِنَّ الْحَجَّ فَلاَ رَفَثَ وَلاَ فُسُوقَ وَلاَ جِدَالَ فِي الْحَجِّ وَمَا تَفْعَلُواْ مِنْ خَيْرٍ يَعْلَمْهُ اللّهُ وَتَزَوَّدُواْ فَإِنَّ خَيْرَ الزَّادِ التَّقْوَى وَاتَّقُونِ يَا أُوْلِي الأَلْبَابِ (197) The pilgrimage is known months, so whoever undertakes therein the performance of the pilgrimage, there should be no approach (to women) nor wickedness nor dispute during pilgrimage. And whatever good you do, Allah knows it. And take provisions; indeed, the best provision is the fear and fear Me, O those who possess minds. [Al Quran ; 2:197]
2-
لِّلَّذِينَ يُؤْلُونَ مِن نِّسَآئِهِمْ تَرَبُّصُ أَرْبَعَةِ أَشْهُرٍ فَإِنْ فَآؤُوا فَإِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (226) For those who took an oath not to approach their wives, they should wait four months; and if they return, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [Al Quran ; 2:226]
3-
وَالَّذِينَ يُتَوَفَّوْنَ مِنكُمْ وَيَذَرُونَ أَزْوَاجًا يَتَرَبَّصْنَ بِأَنفُسِهِنَّ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ وَعَشْرًا فَإِذَا بَلَغْنَ أَجَلَهُنَّ فَلاَ جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِيمَا فَعَلْنَ فِي أَنفُسِهِنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَاللّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرٌ (234) And those who die among you and leave wives behind, they (the wives) should wait for four months and ten (days); and if they have reached their specified time, then no blame is upon you for what they did with themselves lawfully. And Allah of what you do is Acquainted. [Al Quran ; 2:234]
4-
فَسِيحُواْ فِي الأَرْضِ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّكُمْ غَيْرُ مُعْجِزِي اللّهِ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ مُخْزِي الْكَافِرِينَ (2) So travel freely in the land for four months and know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the unbelievers. [Al Quran ; 9:2]
5-
فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (5) And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and establish prayer and give Zakat, then let them go their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [Al Quran ; 9:5]
6-
وَاللَّائِي يَئِسْنَ مِنَ الْمَحِيضِ مِنْ نِسَائِكُمْ إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ فَعِدَّتُهُنَّ ثَلَاثَةُ أَشْهُرٍ وَاللَّائِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ ۚ وَأُولَاتُ الْأَحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَنْ يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ ۚ وَمَنْ يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يَجْعَلْ لَهُ مِنْ أَمْرِهِ يُسْرًا (4) And those who have despaired of menstruation among your women, if you doubt, then their waiting period is three months, and also for those who do not menstruate (between menstruations). And the pregnant women, their waiting period is until they deliver their burden; and whoever fears Allah He will make for him through his affair easiness. [Al Quran ; 65:4]
7 ?????????????????????¢??
إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ فَلاَ تَظْلِمُواْ فِيهِنَّ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَقَاتِلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ كَآفَّةً كَمَا يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ كَآفَّةً وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ (36) Indeed, the number of the months with Allah is twelve month in the book of Allah the day He created the heavens and the earth; of these, four are sacred. That is the valuable religion, so be not unjust to yourselves during them and fight the polytheists collectively as they fight you collectively and know that Allah is with the pious. [Al Quran ; 9:36]
THE ABOVE 7 OCCURRENCES SHOULD NOT BE COUNTED
Mordegast wrote:
"شهر an indefinite word yields 3 results
الشهر the definite form of the word gives 4 results
2 more instances of شهرا meaning month in the accusative case
one instance of بالشهر which is month prefixed by a preposition
C- The singular forms: شهر , Shahr, i.e. Month الشهر , Al-Shahr, i.e. The Month شهرا , Shahra, i.e. Month بالشهر , Bi Al-Shahr, i.e. for the month
Appeared 12 times (should be counted because it is singular):
1 & 2 ?????????????????????¢??
شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ وَبَيِّنَاتٍ مِّنَ الْهُدَى وَالْفُرْقَانِ فَمَن شَهِدَ مِنكُمُ الشَّهْرَ فَلْيَصُمْهُ وَمَن كَانَ مَرِيضًا أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ فَعِدَّةٌ مِّنْ أَيَّامٍ أُخَرَ يُرِيدُ اللّهُ بِكُمُ الْيُسْرَ وَلاَ يُرِيدُ بِكُمُ الْعُسْرَ وَلِتُكْمِلُواْ الْعِدَّةَ وَلِتُكَبِّرُواْ اللّهَ عَلَى مَا هَدَاكُمْ وَلَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ (185) The month of Ramadan is that in which the Quran was sent down , a guidance for the people and proofs of guidance and criterion; so whoever among you witnesses the month, then he should fast it, and whoever is sick or in a journey, then a counted number of other days. Allah wants for you easiness and does not want for you difficulty; and you should complete the count and you should magnify Allah for that to which He has guided you, and that you may give thanks. [Al Quran ; 2:185]
3 & 4 ?????????????????????¢??
الشَّهْرُ الْحَرَامُ بِالشَّهْرِ الْحَرَامِ وَالْحُرُمَاتُ قِصَاصٌ فَمَنِ اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ فَاعْتَدُواْ عَلَيْهِ بِمِثْلِ مَا اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ (194) The sacred month for the sacred month, and for all violations are legal retribution; so whoever inflicts damage to you, then inflict damage to him in the same way he has inflicted damage to you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear. [Al Quran ; 2:194]
5 ?????????????????????¢??
يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الشَّهْرِ الْحَرَامِ قِتَالٍ فِيهِ قُلْ قِتَالٌ فِيهِ كَبِيرٌ وَصَدٌّ عَن سَبِيلِ اللّهِ وَكُفْرٌ بِهِ وَالْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَإِخْرَاجُ أَهْلِهِ مِنْهُ أَكْبَرُ عِندَ اللّهِ وَالْفِتْنَةُ أَكْبَرُ مِنَ الْقَتْلِ وَلاَ يَزَالُونَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ حَتَّىَ يَرُدُّوكُمْ عَن دِينِكُمْ إِنِ اسْتَطَاعُواْ وَمَن يَرْتَدِدْ مِنكُمْ عَن دِينِهِ فَيَمُتْ وَهُوَ كَافِرٌ فَأُوْلَئِكَ حَبِطَتْ أَعْمَالُهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَأُوْلَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ النَّارِ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ (217) They ask you about the sacred month, about fighting therein. Say: Fighting therein is great and hindering from the way of Allah and disbelieving in Him, and (in) the sacred mosque by forcing its people out of it are greater (sin) with Allah. And discord is greater (in sin) than killing; and they will continue to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they could. And whoever among you turns back from his religion and dies while he is an unbeliever, then those are the ones whose deeds will be nullified in this life and the hereafter; and they are the companions of the fire, they will be therein abiding. [Al Quran ; 2:217]
6 ?????????????????????¢??
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تُحِلُّواْ شَعَآئِرَ اللّهِ وَلاَ الشَّهْرَ الْحَرَامَ وَلاَ الْهَدْيَ وَلاَ الْقَلآئِدَ وَلا آمِّينَ الْبَيْتَ الْحَرَامَ يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلاً مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ وَرِضْوَانًا وَإِذَا حَلَلْتُمْ فَاصْطَادُواْ وَلاَ يَجْرِمَنَّكُمْ شَنَآنُ قَوْمٍ أَن صَدُّوكُمْ عَنِ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ أَن تَعْتَدُواْ وَتَعَاوَنُواْ عَلَى الْبرِّ وَالتَّقْوَى وَلاَ تَعَاوَنُواْ عَلَى الإِثْمِ وَالْعُدْوَانِ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ إِنَّ اللّهَ شَدِيدُ الْعِقَابِ (2) O you who have believed! Do not violate the symbols of Allah or the sacred month, or the offerings, or the garlands, or those coming to the sacred mosque seeking grace from their Lord and (His) pleasure. And when you finish pilgrimage, then you may hunt. And do not let the hatred of the people if they hinder you from the sacred mosque lead you to perpetrate. And help one another in righteousness and piety, and do not help one another in sin and transgression; and fear Allah; indeed, Allah is severe in punishment. [Al Quran ; 5:2]
7 ?????????????????????¢??
جَعَلَ اللّهُ الْكَعْبَةَ الْبَيْتَ الْحَرَامَ قِيَامًا لِّلنَّاسِ وَالشَّهْرَ الْحَرَامَ وَالْهَدْيَ وَالْقَلاَئِدَ ذَلِكَ لِتَعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ يَعْلَمُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ وَأَنَّ اللّهَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ (97) Allah has made the Kabah, the sacred house, a place of (prayer) standing for the people, and (has made) the sacred month and the offerings and the garlands. That is so you may know that Allah knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and that Allah is of everything Knowing. [Al Quran ; 5:97]
8 ?????????????????????¢??
إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ يَوْمَ خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَات وَالأَرْضَ مِنْهَا أَرْبَعَةٌ حُرُمٌ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ فَلاَ تَظْلِمُواْ فِيهِنَّ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَقَاتِلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ كَآفَّةً كَمَا يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ كَآفَّةً وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ مَعَ الْمُتَّقِينَ (36) Indeed, the number of the months with Allah is twelve month in the book of Allah the day He created the heavens and the earth; of these, four are sacred. That is the valuable religion, so be not unjust to yourselves during them and fight the polytheists collectively as they fight you collectively and know that Allah is with the pious. [Al Quran ; 9:36]
9 & 10 ?????????????????????¢??
وَلِسُلَيْمَانَ الرِّيحَ غُدُوُّهَا شَهْرٌ وَرَوَاحُهَا شَهْرٌ ۖ وَأَسَلْنَا لَهُ عَيْنَ الْقِطْرِ ۖ وَمِنَ الْجِنِّ مَنْ يَعْمَلُ بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ بِإِذْنِ رَبِّهِ ۖ وَمَنْ يَزِغْ مِنْهُمْ عَنْ أَمْرِنَا نُذِقْهُ مِنْ عَذَابِ السَّعِيرِ (12) And to Solaiman, (We subjected) the wind, its morning journey is (like) a month and its afternoon journey is (like) a month, and We melted for him a spring of copper, and of the jinn there were those who worked before him by the permission of his Lord; and whoever deviated among them from Our command, We made him taste of the torture of the blaze. [Al Quran ; 34:12]
11 ?????????????????????¢??
وَوَصَّيْنَا الْإِنْسَانَ بِوَالِدَيْهِ إِحْسَانًا ۖ حَمَلَتْهُ أُمُّهُ كُرْهًا وَوَضَعَتْهُ كُرْهًا ۖ وَحَمْلُهُ وَفِصَالُهُ ثَلَاثُونَ شَهْرًا ۚ حَتَّىٰ إِذَا بَلَغَ أَشُدَّهُ وَبَلَغَ أَرْبَعِينَ سَنَةً قَالَ رَبِّ أَوْزِعْنِي أَنْ أَشْكُرَ نِعْمَتَكَ الَّتِي أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيَّ وَعَلَىٰ وَالِدَيَّ وَأَنْ أَعْمَلَ صَالِحًا تَرْضَاهُ وَأَصْلِحْ لِي فِي ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ إِنِّي تُبْتُ إِلَيْكَ وَإِنِّي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ (15) And We have enjoined upon the human, to his parents, the doing of good. His mother carried him in hardship and delivered him in hardship; and his gestation and his weaning is thirty month; until when he reaches his maturity and reaches forty years, he says: My Lord! Enable me to give thanks for Your favour which You has bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do good which pleases You, and make good for me my offspring; indeed, I have repented to You, and indeed, I am of the submitters (to You). [Al Quran ; 46:15]
12 ?????????????????????¢??
لَيْلَةُ الْقَدْرِ خَيْرٌ مِنْ أَلْفِ شَهْرٍ (3) The night of the decree is better than a thousand month. [Al Quran ; 97:3]
THE ABOVE 12 OCCURRENCES SHOULD BE COUNTED
I.e. The Quran used the singular form of the word Month 12 times
Mordegast wrote:
brining the total to 18"
WRONG
The total occurrences of the words Month and Two Months and Months are 21 times grouped as follow:
1- Month (singular) appeared 12 times
2- Two months (dual) appeared 2 times
3- Months (plural) appeared 7 times
Therefore you are certainly dumb to follow some ignorant jerks without qualifying what they spew of crap and lies.
Mordegast wrote:
Ahmed will have to provide examples.
I did and slam dunked you too, welcome to my slam dunk show:
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Wed 10 Mar, 2010 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Wed 10 Mar, 2010 5:14 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
Look brother BMZ how one of the goons replied to my slam dunk #79:
The goon of FFI crazymonkie_ wrote:
So if you get rid of the plurals, the numbers work out?
Why are you justified in excluding the plurals? Wouldn't it make more sense to include them, since we're talking about *months,* not just *a month*?
Ahmed said to the FFI goon:
Read the start of my slam dunk, then dismiss yourself, jerk _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Wed 10 Mar, 2010 5:59 pm
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 76 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 614
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Look brother BMZ how one of the goons replied to my slam dunk #79:
The goon of FFI crazymonkie_ wrote:
So if you get rid of the plurals, the numbers work out?
Why are you justified in excluding the plurals? Wouldn't it make more sense to include them, since we're talking about *months,* not just *a month*?
Ahmed said to the FFI goon:
Read the start of my slam dunk, then dismiss yourself, jerk
Hello, Ahmed
Most of the FFI goons have no brains, no knowledge and are clueless.
They need this "Ashaddal Azaab" known as Slam Dunk Punishment at the right time. Keep on dismissing these clowns.
I don't see KhaliL Fariel writing anymore there. Has he left FFI?
Salaams, mate
BMZ
Posted:
Fri 12 Mar, 2010 2:04 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Post subject:
BMZ wrote:
I don't see KhaliL Fariel writing anymore there. Has he left FFI?
Salaams, mate
BMZ
Salam mate
I dont see him either, I hope he is ok, I think he was suffering some sort of tough disease, anyway I wish him good in the life of this world
I just slammed the 80th slam, I will post it in here tonight innshaallah
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
No No, bring the verse in here and also the few verses before it and after it, then I will resume my slam dunk show
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I do not go any where pal, this is my home (FFI), so bring it in here and walk me through it using your own words so I can slam dunk you hard
Still waiting
Wootah wrote:
I picked a verse I went through it. Now slam dunk what I said.
Good, I hope it is something new, not one that I slammed before, you know I want the show to be entertaining not bloody boring. So let the show begins:
Wootah wrote:
I'll make my point again.
Good, and to make it take my attention, you as the accuser of whatever need to be short and brief, however me as the defender can talk as much as I want, sounds not fair, but in reality and logically it is very fair, you can have a re-refute which I welcome as it will extend the slam dunk show, possibly a couple more slams.
Wootah wrote:
This sura has 3 ayat in it that are very disturbing to my sensibilities.
Fair enough, now I hope your sensibilities are not as stubborn and dumb as most if not all the kafirs on FFI web site. Crossing my fingers, not pointing the finger nor raising the finger.
Wootah wrote:
Here were my comments on my understanding of them:
Thanks for being very descriptive and organised, the signs look good to me
Wootah wrote:
9:71 - talks about the believers and how they should treat each other. Underlined for emphasis that the Koran does not teach the golden rule.
I think I slam dunked anything said about sura 9 before, so let me bring the verse in here from my site and continue?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦
وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتُ بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء بَعْضٍ يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَيُقِيمُونَ الصَّلاَةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَيُطِيعُونَ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ أُوْلَئِكَ سَيَرْحَمُهُمُ اللّهُ إِنَّ اللّهَ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ (71) And the believing men and the believing women, they are guardians of each other; they command what is good and forbid what is evil and establish prayer and give Zakat and obey Allah and His messenger. Those are the ones to whom Allah will grant mercy; indeed, Allah is Mighty, Wise. [Al Quran ; 9:71]
Hmmmm, that is something new I never replied to before. I say you should never have a problem with it, this is something for the believers, a command from Allah to them and a promise, here is the command: they command what is good and forbid what is evil and establish prayer and give Zakat and obey Allah and His messenger. And here is the promise: Those are the ones to whom Allah will grant mercy;
So it is a mere command and a promise, unless your itch is caused by this part from the verse: they are guardians of each other; ? Hmmm, so what? Do you want the sincere believers (men and women) to be described as enemies of each other or something?
Now, it seems that you also misunderstand the above verse, the believers are described as guardians (protectors) to each other, however they were commanded to يَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَيَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ , i.e. they command what is good and forbid what is evil APPLIES TO ALL, i.e. the sincere Muslims (men ans women) who establish prayer and give Zakat and obey Allah and His messenger. , not any Muslim for that matter.
Therefore the verse above is directed at ONLY the SINCERE MUSLIMS, not every Muslim. For sure you know a lot of Muslims who do not pray at all, drink alcohol everyday and hardly give money to the poor, therefore the above verse does not apply to them.
Wootah wrote:
9:73 - Be harsh with unbelievers. I would imagine that would entail doing harsh things?
Let me bring the verse in here:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ جَاهِدِ الْكُفَّارَ وَالْمُنَافِقِينَ وَاغْلُظْ عَلَيْهِمْ وَمَأْوَاهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ وَبِئْسَ الْمَصِيرُ (73) O Prophet! Strive against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh to them. And their refuge will be hell, and miserable is the destination. [Al Quran ; 9:73]
Lol, I have replied to this before. Again, the above applies to the Muslims ON A MUSLIM LAND against the Kuffar who work hard to violate the SHARIA ON THE MUSLIM LAND, specifically Mecca. Try to read the surah from the beginning to end so you come to grasp to its message and moral of the story, do not be dumb as those freaks on FFI who pick and choose what suits their crap.
So what did you want to be said? To give the Kuffar the second cheek while the Kuffar were working hard to kill Muhammed and kill the last message of Allah to humanity?
Did America and the world give their second cheek to the terrorists who started attacking America on their American land? In fact what America did by chasing those who attacked them complies 100% with the above message and command from Allah
For me the Kuffar and Hypocrites are those who commit atrocities in the land and kill masses of innocent humans.
Therefore being harsh against the enemy who attack you on your land is the message of the above verse, and it is indeed adhered to by anyone all over the history without exception, being on individuals or on societies levels
If I know that someone is working hard to kill me and take my land, I must work harder to kill him, but not to take his land.
You have no point, pal
Wootah wrote:
9:74 - if on earth they have no helper or protector I would imagine that a Muslim should not help or protect them.
Let me bring the verse in here:
يَحْلِفُونَ بِاللّهِ مَا قَالُواْ وَلَقَدْ قَالُواْ كَلِمَةَ الْكُفْرِ وَكَفَرُواْ بَعْدَ إِسْلاَمِهِمْ وَهَمُّواْ بِمَا لَمْ يَنَالُواْ وَمَا نَقَمُواْ إِلاَّ أَنْ أَغْنَاهُمُ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ فَإِن يَتُوبُواْ يَكُ خَيْرًا لَّهُمْ وَإِن يَتَوَلَّوْا يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللّهُ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَمَا لَهُمْ فِي الأَرْضِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلاَ نَصِيرٍ (74) They swear by Allah that they did not say. And they have certainly said the word of disbelief and disbelieved after their ISLAM (to Allah) and intended that which they would not attain. And they did not resent except that Allah and His messenger enriched them out of His grace. So if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn away, Allah will castigate them with a painful torture in this world and the hereafter; and there will not be for them on earth any guardian or a helper. [Al Quran ; 9:74]
The verse above is talking about the hypocrites from among the fake Muslims, so you have no point again.
Now your argument concerning this bit: وَمَا لَهُمْ فِي الأَرْضِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلاَ نَصِيرٍ , i.e. and there will not be for them on earth any guardian or a helper. is nothing but wishful thinking motivated by your programmed hatred to Islam. If you read the whole verse and not picking a sentence from it to stimulate your corrupt mind, you should know that the verse is talking about the hypocrites from among the Muslims who will be punished by Allah for their hypocrisy in the life of this world and in the hereafter and through such punishment, they will have no guardian or helper (being from the kafirs or being from the Muslims or being from any other man made gods) to repel such punishment, see this:
يَحْلِفُونَ بِاللّهِ مَا قَالُواْ وَلَقَدْ قَالُواْ كَلِمَةَ الْكُفْرِ وَكَفَرُواْ بَعْدَ إِسْلاَمِهِمْ , i.e. They swear by Allah that they did not say. And they have certainly said the word of disbelief and disbelieved after their ISLAM (to Allah) , i.e. the verse is talking about the hypocrites from among the Muslims not the kafirs, so you need to butt out of it. Try to bring something related to you as a kafir. I hope you got it now.
Wootah wrote:
I would regard each 3 of these ayat as evidence of the following.
Ok, you are very organised, so what I am about to read is your summary of the above, very good.
Wootah wrote:
- Muslims are to only be friends with each other
To translate the word Awliaa as Friends is very dumb or at best nothing but an act of ignorance, the word Awliaa means Guardians or Protectors, not Friends, the Quran used the explicit words for Friends Ashab or Sadiq zillions of times.
And of course Muslims have to be protectors and guardians to each other, but hey, do you see them doing so? Of course not, most Muslim nations are fighting each other, in fact within the same nation, different sects are fighting together, and even more, within the same sect, Muslims are fighting together, therefore while the above message is certainly moral and practical in any society (being Muslim or whatever) i.e. to be guardians to each other, most Muslims do not do that. So you have no bloody point again.
Wootah wrote:
- Muslims are not to be friends with non-Muslims
The dumb conclusion above was based on the wrong stimulate for your faulty brain which is motivated by your hidden hatred to Islam which is making you fukin blind to see that what the Quran is talking about is currently and always practised (or at least should be practised) by any bloody nation or religion or group in any bloody generation
Wootah wrote:
- Muslims are to be harsh with non-Muslims.
Anyone should be harsh while defending their land and themselves against those who want to make mischief in their land or those who attack them on their land. The Americans are very good example for that and I totally support them. I support them because it is logically so, and because that is the exact moral of the story from verse 9:73
Wootah wrote:
- Non-Muslims have no protection on earth and as such Muslims should not help or assist non-Muslims.
Look pal, the Hypocrites from among the Muslims are the ones about whom 9:74 is talking, so please butt yourself out of it, it does not belong to you as a kafir. Again, the hypocrites from among the Muslims will have no guardian or protector (by anyone being a Muslim, a Kafir, some man made gods or angels etc) other than Allah to repel His punishment from them.
Wootah wrote:
Now is it your turn?
My turn must end your next turn, because the subject has been slammed, here it is and let?????????????????????¢??s move on and talk the next new slam:
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Sat 13 Mar, 2010 5:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Sat 13 Mar, 2010 12:05 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam all
Slam dunk #80 continued a bit, so let?????????????????????¢??s see what happened:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Mister wootah
You need to edit your comment above and write the Name Muhammed complete, if you ever write it again using those two letters you will be dismissed.
if you want to play shifty then be aware that I will beat you hard with my language then life dismiss you
Wootah wrote:
Right ... next I will have to add saws ... next I will have to worship. Your moral outrage at words and thoughts is noted.
No pal, you dont need saws, this is a further insult to Allah by abbreviating His name to letter a in saws, just call him Muhammed, do not make it hard for yourself, just take it easy:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I think I slam dunked anything said about sura 9 before, so let me bring the verse in here from my site and continue?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦
Wootah wrote:
Well you have a long history on this site. These issues no doubt crop up again from time to time.
I like FFI site because their moderators and owners are very fair, I don?????????????????????¢??t like tyranny on any level from anyone one
And thanks for editing the name Muahmmed, I think what I asked for is fair, that is if you want to have a civil and logical discussion with me, on the other hand my civility does not prevent me from using tough words that may be classified as insults, you can do the same to me, I have no problem with that, in fact it is very good way of learning how to control anger.
Wootah wrote:
To be fair to me, 71 arose because you wanted some proceeding verses but it does seem like it has been worthwhile doing as you asked.
Fair enough. I asked for the verses before it and after because the Quran explains itself, ad most answers are found in the verses before or after the verse the kafirs are picking on, so I asked you to bring it to make you have another look on them just in case, however the answer for some arguments may be in the same verse or the same sura or in the rest of the Quran, but the majority are in verses before or after the verse in question.
The idea of the Quran explains itself is not something that I invented, it is actually stated in the Quran, Allah said n the Quran that upon Him is its explanation, therefore we must use His own words in the rest of the Quran to look for answers, this is how the logical and practical way of Him explaining it, it is not like He will come down ad explain it to us face to face.
Wootah wrote:
It does seem that in context with 73 and 74 we are to contrast how sincere Muslims are to treat each other with how they are to treat non-Muslims.
The relationship regarding belief between believers has to be different to the relationship between the kafirs and the believers, this is bloody logical, now the whole surah 9 is talking about Mecca and the re-claiming of the House of Allah, i.e. we are talking about purely Muslim land and its laws, if you are not happy with it as a kafir, then do not bloody live there and you will be better off living in a kafir land, despite the fact that if you live as a peaceful kafir in a Muslim land, you will be treated with hospitality and honour just in case you might get the message of belief, this was explained clearly in the same surah, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look, shall we:
وَإِنْ أَحَدٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ اسْتَجَارَكَ فَأَجِرْهُ حَتَّى يَسْمَعَ كَلاَمَ اللّهِ ثُمَّ أَبْلِغْهُ مَأْمَنَهُ ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يَعْلَمُونَ (6) And if one of the polytheists seeks protection from you, then grant him protection so he hears the words of Allah, and deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know. [Al Quran ; 9:6]
-> See miser wootah, And if one of the polytheists seeks protection from you, then grant him protection so he hears the words of Allah, and deliver him to his place of safety. How clear, the verse stated to protect the kafirs if they seek protection so he can hear the word of Allah, then we should deliver him to his place of safety, the verse did not even conditioned that for us to deliver them to their places of safety, they should believe first after they hear the words of Allah, of course the verse never stated the condition of believing for such good treatment and protection.
Wootah wrote:
Of course we are dealing only with sincere Muslims. A sincere Muslim cannot treat non-Muslims how they treat sincere Muslims. It seems like we agree here?
Concerning belief of course the treatment should be different, however concerning any other life matter, then the kafirs have a higher degree because what was said about the kafirs in 9:6 as a command from Allah concerning the peaceful kafirs should be the same as the Muslims being guardian to each other, as clearly 9:6 tells us in elaboration to offer protection to the peaceful kafirs.
The Quran only commands the Muslims not to seek protection from or protect the kafirs in religious matters, that should make sense because both the Muslims and the kafirs are the two ends of the spectrum, therefore a religious agreement between them would only happen if the kafirs concede that there is no god except Allah Whom they can worship Him the way they want on their land, but in the Muslim land, they can only worship him the way they want behind their home doors, not in public, as in public everyone should be the same while worshipping the one and only God on a Muslim land.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Hmmm, so what? Do you want the sincere believers (men and women) to be described as enemies of each other or something?
Wootah wrote:
Of course not but it would be nice to compare Mohammad's teachings with Jesus and see some relationship.
Oh please, you just shot the dumb kafirs between the eyes, they accuse the Muslims of Tu quque or whatever they fukin call it when the Muslim bring the horrible teachings of the bible on the table as a comparison to what the kafirs allege against some Quran verses.
Jesus clearly stated that he was sent to not to make peace between the parents and their children, so he was not that nice as you might delude yourself in your kafir world. Jesus was a great prophet who was sent to fulfil a specific task using whatever method or style Allah wanted him to use
If he was that nice to his people, why you think that they conspired to humiliate him in public then kill him?
Don?????????????????????¢??t come back with that Christian crap that he had to die for our sins, this is just fukin insane as the mighty God can simply can forgive all sins by just saying I forgive you, but it seems that the Christians made a god for themselves that he cannot even do it simply as such, he bloody has to kill his son or himself to fukin forgive the sins, how fukin insane. This is enough to expose all those dumb and stupid kafirs on FFI who use such flawe3d argument against the Muslims, they better use it against the Christian god who seems to anyone to be very helpless.
Wootah wrote:
Jesus tells us to treat non-Christians as equal if not better than we treat each other. Also forget Jesus just to see equal morality with the golden rule.
Dismissed
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The verse above is talking about the hypocrites from among the fake Muslims, so you have no point again.
Wootah wrote:
Fair enough. But the verse says 'if they turn away' 'and there will not be for them on earth any guardian or a helper'. Clearly the fake Muslims that turn away are now amongst the apostates and unbelievers?
The verse means that if the hypocrites فَإِن يَتُوبُواْ يَكُ خَيْرًا لَّهُمْ وَإِن يَتَوَلَّوْا , So if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn away , i.e. when we tell them that they are hypocrites and they should repent or Allah will castigate them in this life and in the hereafter while they will never have a protector to repel His punishment, then it will be good for them, BUT IF THEY TURN AWAY FROM WHAT WE JUST TOLD THEM, then: يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللّهُ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَمَا لَهُمْ فِي الأَرْضِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلاَ نَصِيرٍ , Allah will castigate them with a painful torture in this world and the hereafter; and there will not be for them on earth any guardian or a helper. and as you can see, it says ALLAH WILL CASTIGATE THEM, it did not say the Muslims should castigate them.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
So what did you want to be said? To give the Kuffar the second cheek while the Kuffar were working hard to kill Muhammed and kill the last message of Allah to humanity?
Wootah wrote:
If he was the last message of Allah then Allah would not have allowed that.
Of course Allah can do anything at anytime and without being questionable about what He does.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Did America and the world give their second cheek to the terrorists who started attacking America on their American land? In fact what America did chasing those who attacked them complies 100% with the above message and command from Allah
Wootah wrote:
Of course I agree with you here and with Mohammad. Mohammad was a man that fought for his side, killed who he needed to to survive, took the women and the booty and won but not a prophet. Just another historical figure.
Come on, you are not going to get me some stupid stories from Bukhari Springer and his pals hadith show.
I do not give a fuk about any history you might bring on the tale, history records may or may not be correct, so it is classified as hearsay for me, and will be dismissed, but if you ever dare to go there I can dare ad do the same and show you from your fuking history book of life far worth atrocities committed by your Christian and Jewish pals, so you need to shut the fuk up in that department.
Wootah wrote:
But this is why Jesus was God and we aren't.
How fukin funny, so you are a confused Christian, look pal, do not spew such Christian crap at me, I know your Bible in two languages (English & Arabic) better than any confused Christian on this web site, therefore I will just ended by rejecting your crap that Jesus was god, but if you insist or continue to intimidate me by such pure rubbish and non sense, I will use your own Bible against you and you will have no way out, therefore you need to shut the fuk up in that department too.
Wootah wrote:
This is the kind of evidence you have that Mohammad wasn't a prophet and not the last prophet because we agree with Mohammad's actions and can understand them. He is of this world: killing, looting, defending his territory. We understand his motivations. He was so morally inferior to Jesus, who was not of this world and preaching of the kingdom of Heaven.
Dismissed
AhmedBahgat wrote:
For me the Kuffar and Hypocrites are those who commit atrocities in the land and kill masses of innocent humans.
Wootah wrote:
Fair enough. I agree. But you are labelling many highly respected authorities on Islam hypocrites. I am glad you are in Australia where we can protect you.
No one will be able to do anything to me unless Allah permits, therefore I have nothing to fear from and certainly I fear not anyone from my home country whom I am sure read my content on facebook using my real name, I travel a lot to Egypt and have no problem
I am not politically motivated, I am only religiously motivated.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
If I know that one is working hard to kill me and take my land, I must work harder to kill him. You have no point, pal
Wootah wrote:
My point was to show that the Koran preaches 'harshness', which you agree can be up to and including killing your enemies.
So fukin what to kill the enemy?
Fine pal, you can let your enemy to kill you, good luck with that, I won?????????????????????¢??t
But look how fukin hypocrite you are, America killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians including women ad children wiping two developed cities out of existence in a fukin flash
So let me use the American excuse then:
The Quran commands us to kill our enemy so by doing so we prevent more killings. Hahahaha fukin hahahahaha
AhmedBahgat wrote:
they will have no guardian or helper (being from the kafirs or being from the Muslims or being from any other man made gods), I hope you got it now.
Wootah wrote:
We agree again. No muslim can help or offer to help a hypocrite. Now you define hypocrite as a person that claims to be a muslim but is not a sincere muslim. And I agree. But the verse says 'if they turn away' 'and there will not be for them on earth any guardian or a helper' means that the verse is not talking about hypocrites as you define it but apostates.
I explained the part of ?????????????????????¢??If they turn away?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? above, read again
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Look pal, the Hypocrites from among the Muslims are the ones about whom 9:74 is talking, so please butt yourself out of it, it does not belong to you as a kafir. Again, the hypocrites from among the Muslims will have no guardian or protector (by anyone being a Muslim, a Kafir, some man made gods or angels etc) other than Allah to repel His punishment from them.
Wootah wrote:
Your argument seems to me that this verse is not talking to non-muslims or apostates but to insincere/hypocrite Muslims.
The verse is talking to those who believe or at least claim to believe in the Quran, so those who believe in it should warn those who seems to be hypocrites
Wootah wrote:
However the proceeding verse 73 in your translation says 'Strive against the unbelievers and the hypocrites'. So even if hypocrite means insincere/hypocrite Muslims Allah is also including the unbeliever.
That is on a Muslim land, you need to read the whole surah from start to finish more than once to come to grasp with its practical ad logical message, verse 9:6 alone is enough to slam dunk your repeated argument.
Wootah wrote:
Further in 74 when talking about the insinere muslims/hypocrites: 'So if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn away, Allah will castigate them with a painful torture in this world and the hereafter; and there will not be for them on earth any guardian or a helper.'
For the kafirs, if they repent from attacking the Muslim or violating the new Muslims rules governing the House of Allah in Mecca after it was reclaimed
For the Hypocrites, they need to repent from being hypocrites.
Wootah wrote:
Q:What on earth is an insincere muslim that does not repent and turns away?
Was explained before, read again
Wootah wrote:
A: An apostate.
B: A really really insincere Muslim.
The verse gave us a hint about them, as well the hypocrites are thoroughly described in the Quran, in fact there is a whole surah that is named ?????????????????????¢??The hypocrites?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, you need to read more to learn, the message of Allah is not that easy for anyone btw
Wootah wrote:
Finally, if in 74 Allah will punish them with a painful torture, now and later, and there will be no protection on earth for them from this torture it could easily be implied by sincere Muslims not to help these people. Would you wish to be seen helping or aiding and abetting someone that Allah had marked for punishment?
Wishful thinking is dismissed
You need to move on to the next argument, your argument inhere is thoroughly smashed not just slammed
-------------------------
Then one of the hardcore enemy of Islam and my stalker (for over 5 years now) pisscohot came in to cause confusion and disturbance to any dialogue I have any decent kafir, so inmate pisscohot said:
piscohot wrote:
When muslims killed their enemies in battle, Allah too said that it is Him who killed the enemies not the muslims. Did not take away the fact that the people still died by the hands of the muslims. So likewise, Allah will castigate them can simply meant muslims will castigate them. Who you trying to fool here?
Then wootah said to him:
Wootah wrote:
I know I've seen that somewhere as well. Where is that said?
So I had to say to wootah:
Oh come on wootah, dont listen to filthy freak who is harassing me for over 5 years now, that is why I have to put him where he belongs, the life dismissal wing, my cyber jail, I once was really nice and polite to him, on another web site though, but after his clear hatred and black intentions was confirmed, he was life dismissed and I also have the power to life dismiss anyone who goes hand in hand with my clear cut enemy who hates me very much (but ironically they like something in me somehow)
So do not bloody ask him, I will kow how to get you the verse quicker than anyone, in fact and I swear by the mighty Allah that while writing my reply, I thought that you might come back with such counter argument so I am fully ready for it and I know well how the Quran replies to it, so if you want to continue this slam through such stupid line of argument, go for it, it will just adds another slam to my show
Also I have no problem that you seek the help of, or go hand in hand with, another decent kafir that is not one of my clear cut enemies. Like Khlail, or Bunny for examples and possibly some nice ladies in here, Ariel and a few others, but please stay away from the following lowlifes and life dismissal inmates through any dialogue you have with me,
Pisscohot
Bin Lyin
Cassie
I have no obligation to continue talking with one who seeks the help of my clear cut enemies
They only come to cause disturbance and confusion through my dialogues with others
So it is all in your hands to control this
Salam
-----------------------
Then I decided to slam dunk inmate pisscohot to send him where he belongs, the lowlife wing in my Cyber prison:
Ahmed chose to reply to one of the filthiest inmates.
My reply will also include a slam dunk to send him back to his cell where his boyfriend is waiting eagerly for him:
piscohot wrote:
hypocrites need to repent their hypocrisy?
you meant they need to become muslims again after their disbelief?
Ahmed says
Who is that?
Inmate piss. Look inmate I warned you before not to come out of your cell without a written permission from me, therefore your stuidity has to be exposed and slammed, but that is not all, after the slam, I will send you to solitary confinement for the next 2 months. So let the slam begins:
You dumb filthy arse said: they need to become muslims again after their disbelief
I say, let me bring the verse in here again you blind:
يَحْلِفُونَ بِاللّهِ مَا قَالُواْ وَلَقَدْ قَالُواْ كَلِمَةَ الْكُفْرِ وَكَفَرُواْ بَعْدَ إِسْلاَمِهِمْ وَهَمُّواْ بِمَا لَمْ يَنَالُواْ وَمَا نَقَمُواْ إِلاَّ أَنْ أَغْنَاهُمُ اللّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ فَإِن يَتُوبُواْ يَكُ خَيْرًا لَّهُمْ وَإِن يَتَوَلَّوْا يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللّهُ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَمَا لَهُمْ فِي الأَرْضِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلاَ نَصِيرٍ (74) They swear by Allah that they did not say (the word of disbelief). And they have certainly said the word of disbelief and disbelieved after their ISLAM (to Allah) and intended that which they would not attain. And they did not resent except that Allah and His messenger enriched them out of His grace. So if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn away, Allah will castigate them with a painful torture in this world and the hereafter; and there will not be for them on earth any guardian or a helper. [Al Quran ; 9:74]
See the first few words in the verse you dumb:
They swear by Allah that they did not say (the word of disbelief). i.bloody e., they are claiming and swearing by Allah that they are Muslims
How about we try it in bigger font, possibly you will be able to see it:
They swear by Allah that they did not say (the word of disbelief).
Was that big enough, or you like it he biggest? How dumb I am, certainly an inmate like you, likes it the biggest, so let's try the biggest:
They swear by Allah that they did not say (the word of disbelief).
You happy now?
I dont think so, let me try something else to make you feel great:
They swear by Allah that they did not say (the word of disbelief).
I can see the smile on your face now, punk, but hold on, the slam is coming:
# 81
Back to your cell inmate to serve your two months solitary confinement
---------------------------
Then I decided to slam dunk wootah again for seeking the help of one of my clear cut enemies and stalkers:
Wootah wrote:
Ahmed I'm not involved in your dismissed list. He made what seemed to me a very valid post. Where does it come from? I can't remember. Play or don't play Ahmed, I won't be threatened.
Ahmed says:
That was not a threat, I do not threaten people, I just play with open cards, so I was honest to tell you in advance, so if you see me changing my attitude with you to be far worth or just totally ignore you, you should know why
Now, you asked me the question, so let me bring the verses in here. Not strangely that they are from the same sura # 9. You do not even want to do what I asked you to do, which is to read sura 9 from start to finish more than once, this is not for my benefit, it is certainly for your benefit, not to believe in it, but at least to understand it so you do not ask the Muslims stupid questions
The verse being in sura 9 while you did not know nor that freak inmate pisscohot, confirms without a doubt how ignorant you kafirs are with the Quran, let me bring the verse in here:
قَاتِلُوهُمْ يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللّهُ بِأَيْدِيكُمْ وَيُخْزِهِمْ وَيَنصُرْكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ وَيَشْفِ صُدُورَ قَوْمٍ مُّؤْمِنِينَ (14) Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the hearts of a believing people. [Al Quran ; 9:14]
-> The verse clearly says: Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them, i.e. we are talking about a war in here, in fact if we read a couple of verses before we will be able to see the clear black intentions of the kafirs towards the Muslims on a Muslim land where the House of Allah is located:
وَإِن نَّكَثُواْ أَيْمَانَهُم مِّن بَعْدِ عَهْدِهِمْ وَطَعَنُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ فَقَاتِلُواْ أَئِمَّةَ الْكُفْرِ إِنَّهُمْ لاَ أَيْمَانَ لَهُمْ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَنتَهُونَ (12) And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there is no oath to them. Perhaps they might cease. [Al Quran ; 9:12]
Can you see their crimes toward the Muslim on a Muslim land: they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion,, and even that was said as if they do that then we should do that وَإِن, i.e. And if
The verse above to encouraging the Muslims to fight the enemy of the Muslims, not to fight the peaceful kafirs, that was obvious by the possible action of the kafirs as stated in the verse that IF they do that crimes, then we should fight them, in fact the next verse listed another crime to their crimes, let's see:
أَلاَ تُقَاتِلُونَ قَوْمًا نَّكَثُواْ أَيْمَانَهُمْ وَهَمُّواْ بِإِخْرَاجِ الرَّسُولِ وَهُم بَدَؤُوكُمْ أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ أَتَخْشَوْنَهُمْ فَاللّهُ أَحَقُّ أَن تَخْشَوْهُ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤُمِنِينَ (13) Will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and intended to expel the messenger, and began (to attack) you the first time? Do you fear them? And Allah has more right that you should fear Him if you should be believers. [Al Quran ; 9:13]
How clear, pal, see their crimes against the Muslims:
broke their oaths and intended to expel the messenger Can't it get clearer than that? Well it can actually, the same verse is telling us that even the kafirs are the ones WHO STARTED IT, see: وَهُم بَدَؤُوكُمْ أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ, i.e. [size=150]and began (to attack) you the first time[/size]
Here you have it, and as I told you, it will be another irrefutable slam added to my slam dunk show:
# 82
Stay away from freak pisscohot, pal, he is going to secure your seat in hell _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Sat 13 Mar, 2010 4:23 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Another comment by Wootah that I replied to:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The relationship regarding belief between believers has to be different to the relationship between the kafirs and the believers, this is bloody logical
Wootah wrote:
I agree it is logical. It is however a lower standard rather than the golden rule. And frankly I think you are saying that I am on the money here.
Then under your own golden rule which is nothing but an ethical code that states one has a right to just treatment, and a responsibility to ensure justice for others. The kafirs and Mushriks of Mecca should be right and just to the original owners of the House of Allah, the worshippers of the One God, not bloody:
1- Break their treaty that they took with the Muslims
2- Defame the religion of Islam on a Muslim land
3- Work hard to expel the prophet of Islam from the land of Islam
Therefore under your own golden rule and with what we learnt from sura 9, you have no bloody point. If your pals from among the kafirs and Mushriks of Mecca do not adhere to the golden rule, why should the Muslims do?
Well, the Muslims are adhering to the common and logical rule which is a common rule also in your Bible, which is simply, an eye for an eye
If you are going to attack me, I will attack you
And if you are going to be peaceful kafir and seek my protection, then I am obliged to provide such protection for you as commanded by Allah in 9:6
You are not on the money; rather you are on your way to hell, pal.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
See miser wootah, And if one of the polytheists seeks protection from you, then grant him protection so he hears the words of Allah, and deliver him to his place of safety.
Wootah wrote:
Well you will have to show the before and after verses etc then I'll look at this....
Well, I showed enough verses, however if you intimidate me again, I may think about walking you through all sura 9, but that is a lot of work for me and I am a busy man, therefore I have to see if it will be a mother of all slams first to be encouraged to do it (I explained most verses in sura 9 many times before anyway), but if it will be just another slam, I don?????????????????????¢??t think I will be that encouraged, I have slammed you enough and I think, there will be a possible slam in this reply.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Concerning belief of course the treatment should be different, however concerning any other life matter, then the kafirs have a higher degree because what was said about the kafirs in 9:6 as a command from Allah concerning the peaceful kafirs should be the same as the Muslims being guardian to each other, as clearly 9:6 tells us in elaboration to offer protection to the peaceful kafirs.
Wootah wrote:
As you note, you use the term higher degree, not equal.
Are you dumb or something? I said bloody the peaceful kafirs have higher degree than any Muslim because the Quran flagged those peaceful kafirs as one to whom the Muslim are obliged to provide protection to and deliver them to their places of safety, which was not said about the Muslims. So dismiss yourself
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The Quran only commands the Muslims not to seek protection from or protect the kafirs in religious maters, that should make sense because both the Muslims and the kafirs are the two ends of the spectrum, therefore a religious agreement between them would only happen if the kafirs concede that there is no god except Allah Whom they can worship Him the way they want on their land, but in the Muslim land, they can only worship him the way they want behind their home doors, not in public, as in public everyone should be the same while worshipping the one and only God on a Muslim land.
Wootah wrote:
Yes but that isn't fair or just. But that's OK, it's not your fault,
There is no faults in here, but if there is any, then it is your fault to not to understand the common sense that the owners of the land are bloody free to implement any bloody laws they want, if the foreigners do not like it, then simply they need to piss off and find another place, let me give you three examples, ignorant:
- In Egypt, they issued a law to prevent wearing Niqab in schools, Muslims went mad, but hey, if you do not like it, bloody leave and try to live in Iran, Afghanistan or something like that.
- In Sweden or possibly another country, they issued a law to prevent building any new mosques with long towers in them (Muslim style), the muslims went mad, but hey, if they do not like it, tough luck, they need to piss off and possibly live in Egypt, the land of million mosques
- In France, they issued a new law to prevent wearing al Burqah, Muslim went mad, but as we know, tough luck, they can piss off if they do not like it, possibly Saudi Arabia will be a good country for them, that is, if the Saudis are generous enough to allow them to live there and obtain a Saudi citizenship.
Look I started to get the sense that you are only robbing me of my valued time, which is no in my books, it seems to me that you are not living a real world, possibly a world you created in your Barbie world where your golden pinky rule is the only rule.
But I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and continue to reply but if I will find you continuing on that crap that can only be by one in his late teen or possibly early twenties, sorry I will not be able to continue, I will have to salvage every second of my time. And if you are in your twenties, try to come up to me in my forties, I am sick and tired of going down to you, pal.
Wootah wrote:
you know it and I know it. Silly West, wake up.
Well, that was total crap,
For me it is, silly Muslims, smart west
You have no bloody point again, I told you pal, you are in your twenties
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Oh please, you just shot the dumb kafirs between the eyes, they accuse the Muslims of Tu quque or whatever they bloody call it when the Muslim bring the horrible teachings of the bible on the table as a comparison to what the kafirs allege against some Quran verses.
Wootah wrote:
Yeah I probably wish I had just used the golden rule to compare Mohammad to. Regardless, Jesus as a standard is far superior to Mohammad and it makes no sense to have such a low standard come next. You compare one prophet to a man that chopped off 600 heads. Be real.
Well or the Americans who killed 200,000 innocent heads in under one second
You are nothing but a confused deluded blind kafir bound to hell
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Jesus clearly stated that he was sent to not to make peace between the parents and their children, so he was not that nice as you might delude yourself in your kafir world. Jesus was a great prophet who was sent to fulfil a specific task using whatever method or style Allah wanted him to use
Wootah wrote:
Jesus is a sword dividing this world. Jesus is not telling us to use swords to divide the world. Metaphor.
And how many times the word sword appeared in your corrupt bible?
Yeh let?????????????????????¢??s play that game:
The word sword appeared in your corrupt Bible at least 400 times (KJV)
Now let?????????????????????¢??s see how many times the word appeared in the Quran?
Zero
LOL, dismiss yourself, confused Christian
AhmedBahgat wrote:
If he was that nice to his people, why you think that they conspired to humiliate him in public then kill him?
Wootah wrote:
Because in their minds he was blaspheming.
So Jesus the god could not even convince his creatures when he even appeared to them face to face. What a laughable man made god that is
Dismiss yourself, confused Christian
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Don?????????????????????¢??t come back with that Christian crap that he had to die for our sins, this is just bloody insane as the mighty God can simply can forgive all sins by just saying I forgive you, but it seems that the Christians made a god for themselves that he cannot even do it simply as such, he bloody has to kill his son or himself to bloody forgive the sins, how bloody insane. This is enough to expose all those dumb and stupid kafirs on FFI who use such flawe3d argument against the Muslims, they better use it against the Christian god who seems to anyone to be very helpless.
Wootah wrote:
Of course he can just say I forgive you but then he is unjust to do so.
And why so?
Is it justice to punish someone else for others?????????????????????¢?? crimes, confused Christian?
Wootah wrote:
Have you ever been to court?
LOL, can you guess?
Look pal, I have the ability to beat lawyers, prosecutors, police officers/sergeants, expert witnesses and even influence the Judges to rule for me, that is an experience of over 25 years btw, in two countries. So watch out who you are talking to.
So what is special about courts, mister courtney? I have a feeling that I may learn something new in here about courts that I am not aware of, let me see:
Wootah wrote:
Imagine if I robbed from you and we went to court and the judge said, "I forgive you Wootah.
And all evidences convicts your arse?
Then the Judge is a jerk or possibly corrupt and will be expelled sooner than later
The one who should forgive in here is not the Judge mister. Judges have no power to forgive criminals, judges are only restricted to use clauses in laws that were made by the law makers. If a law gives the judge right to use leniency under special circumstances, then so be it, but it cannot be offered freely on a plate of gold, it seems to me that you have not been in court before, or possibly you have, but courts in your Barbie world of imagination.
The only one who has right to forgive will be me as the victim, and this will earn you that I wont chase other ways in civil courts to reclaim damages you caused to me especially psychological damage and fear of public places, or even fear for my own safety in my own home, but even if I do that, the Judge still has to convict you for violating the criminal laws.
Courts are not like giving your second cheek, confused Christian.
Wootah wrote:
" You would think the judge was unjust.
It cannot happen, pal
I do not want to live with you your Barbie world of imagination.
Wootah wrote:
Even you think he will not say I forgive you for shirk and you can't even explain why. Explain why shirk is such a terrible crime. Why is shirk even worse than spitting?
Talking about shirk is a lot of talk and is totally different subject so I have to dismiss your crap above that is based on an assumed illogical action of forgiveness by a judge that can never happen.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Dismissed
Wootah wrote:
Don't dismiss it forever. The moral incompatibility between Mohammad and the golden rule and Mohammad and Jesus is clear to all.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The verse means that if the hypocrites فَإِن يَتُوبُواْ يَكُ خَيْرًا لَّهُمْ وَإِن يَتَوَلَّوْا , So if they repent, it will be good for them; and if they turn away , i.e. when we tell them that they are hypocrites and they should repent or Allah will castigate them in this life and in the hereafter while they will never have a protector to repel His punishment, then it will be good for them, BUT IF THEY TURN AWAY FROM WHAT WE JUST TOLD THEM, then: يُعَذِّبْهُمُ اللّهُ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالآخِرَةِ وَمَا لَهُمْ فِي الأَرْضِ مِن وَلِيٍّ وَلاَ نَصِيرٍ , Allah will castigate them with a painful torture in this world and the hereafter; and there will not be for them on earth any guardian or a helper. and as you can see, it says ALLAH WILL CASTIGATE THEM, it did not say the Muslims should castigate them.
Wootah wrote:
No it does not say Muslims will castigate them.
Then you have no point, please dismiss yourself.
Wootah wrote:
But as I said, Muslims would not be kind to someone that even Allah wants to castigate.
Well, then they are wrong, because for those who have an issue with God, the issue is between them and their God, others need to butt out of it, being whoever.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Of course Allah can do anything at anytime and without being questionable about what He does.
Wootah wrote:
If you understand why you said, you can start to understand why the Koran is meaningless. Nothing in the Koran applies to Allah because he does what he wants. You say Allah is loving, so what, even wicked people love sometimes now and then and especially when they want.
Dismissed
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Come on, you are not going to get me some stupid stories from Bukhari Springer and his pals hadith show.
Wootah wrote:
I won't to you.
You cannot from the first place, because you know well that I will dismiss them on the fly.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I do not give a fuk about any history you might bring on the tale, history records may or may not be correct, so it is classified as hearsay for me, and will be dismissed, but if you ever dare to go there I can dare ad do the same and show you from your bloody g history book of life far worth atrocities committed by your Christian and Jewish pals, so you need to shut the fuk up in that department.
Wootah wrote:
Of course you don't. Slowly more and more Western muslims are retreating to Koran only. Why is that?
Because Allah is guiding them to the truth in the Quran.
Wootah wrote:
Western morality is superior and not compatible with so much that is traditional Islam.
Morality is morality, I refuse to put an adjective before it to categorise it by races, cultures or religions,
There is bad and good things in what you call western morality, and there is bad and good things in other moralities
For religions, moralities can only be judged by what their scriptures state, now if you dare to go there, we will be starting a very long Quran/Bible show that will end with the Quran scoring all the slams and your Bible scoring 0. So I advice you to not to go there, and if you do, I will just ignore you.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
How bloody funny, so you are a confused Christian, look pal, do not spew such Christian crap at me, I know your Bible in two languages (English & Arabic) better than any confused Christian on this web site, therefore I will just ended by rejecting your crap that Jesus was god, but if you insist or continue to intimidate me by such pure rubbish and non sense, I will use your own Bible against you and you will have no way out, therefore you need to shut the fuk up in that department too.
Wootah wrote:
It won't hurt you to hear about God once in a while. As I showed before there is nothing in the Bible I won't defend.
There will be a lot of issues you will need to defend especially if I raise it using my own words, dare not, pal
Wootah wrote:
Forget Jesus for now,
Of course not, because your Bible confirms that he could have never been a god who died for others?????????????????????¢?? sins.
Wootah wrote:
Mohammad was immoral in so many ways ... how can't you see that?
In many of the hearsay stories from Bukhari Springer and his pals hadith show, I totally agree, but again, these are man made stories which are the results of many hearsay by many people, and as you might know that hearsay in any court is dismissed. Not sure about your Barbie court though, I guess Judge Barbie accepts all hearsay presented to her honour as evidences
AhmedBahgat wrote:
So bloody what to kill the enemy? Fine pal, you can let your enemy to kill you, good luck with that, I won?????????????????????¢??t
But look how bloody hypocrite you are, America killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians including women and children by wiping two developed cities out of existence in a bloody flash
Wootah wrote:
Ahh but our discussion is really to work out what this verse means.
Which was explained thoroughly that it means those kafirs and hypocrites who plot for the Muslims on their Muslim land to:
1- Break the treaty they signed
2- Defame the religion of Islam
3- Expel the prophet from his Islamic land
Now, if you to apply your Barbie golden rule, then it should be applied on the perpetrators first.
Wootah wrote:
You are fine in agreeing that it means killing your enemy. I am your enemy Ahmed, the whole non Islamic world is your enemy. I think the ignorant on my side needs to know your views.
If you want to talk about America be specific.
Well, let me say it clear as light then. Anyone will be my enemy if they:
1- Defame Allah
2- Defame any of the prophets
3- Defame any of the angels
4- Defame the religion of Islam
And when I say anyone, I mean anyone, even those confused Muslims from among the sectarian Muslims.
In effect, if you say lies about my religion you will be treated the same as those who lied about my religion in the man made books of hadith and sirah, no bloody exception
Now, how I treat my enemy?
Very simple
1- An eye for an eye
2- An insult for an insult
3- A mock for a mock
4- A cartoon for a cartoon
5- A punch for a punch
6- A kick for kick
7- And if my enemy plots to kill me or expel me from my land on the account of my religion belief, then I must plot to kill them if they refused peaceful resolution.
And that is my Golden Rule.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
I explained the part of ?????????????????????¢??If they turn away?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? above, read again
....
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The verse is talking to those who believe or at least claim to believe in the Quran, so those who believe in it should warn those who seems to be hypocrites
Wootah wrote:
Yes, you called them insincere Muslims.
I called those who do not establish prayer and other obligatory laws ordained by Allah upon the Muslims
AhmedBahgat wrote:
That is on a Muslim land, you need to read the whole surah from start to finish more than once to come to grasp with its practical ad logical message, verse 9:6 alone is enough to slam dunk your repeated argument.
Wootah wrote:
Well post it, the verses around it, explain what you think it means then I'll respond.
Well, read what I said before concerning surah 9, which I walked others through from verse 1 many times before, you should find it on my slam dunk show on my web site.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
For the kafirs, if they repent from attacking the Muslim or violating the new Muslims rules governing the House of Allah in Mecca after it was reclaimed
For the Hypocrites, they need to repent from being hypocrites.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
The verse gave us a hint about them, as well the hypocrites are thoroughly described in the Quran, in fact there is a whole surah that is named ?????????????????????¢??The hypocrites?????????????????????¢??????????????????????, you need to read more to learn, the message of Allah is not that easy for anyone btw
Wootah wrote:
Look I'm fine with your interpretation. The message is for the hypocrites and the really big hypocrites that turn away from Allah they get castigated. I imagine that by logic an apostate is the biggest type of hypocrite.
An apostate who leaves the religion, then work hard to defame it and cause harm to it, can not be dealt with an apostate any more, rather an enemy, who should be dealt with according to my Golden Rule, which is based on the Quran btw.
Now, in regards to dealing with peaceful apostates, they should be left untouched according to the Quran.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wishful thinking is dismissed
You need to move on to the next argument, your argument inhere is thoroughly smashed not just slammed
Wootah wrote:
I think I'm on the money.
Deluding yourself won?????????????????????¢??t help you. You are on your way to hell.
Wootah wrote:
I wasn't confident at first,
And you still are and I will make sure to keep you as such in any debate you have with me.
Wootah wrote:
I just picked a random verse to see how it went through the Ahmed slam dunk machine. It seems to be surviving pretty well.
Bring them all, pal
The slam dunk machine is 100% ready all the times but still if I choose so.
Wootah wrote:
9:73 Prophet, struggle with the unbelievers and hypocrites, and be thou harsh with them
(interpretation: Be harsh with two types of people: the unbelievers and the hypocrites)
The unbelievers and the hypocrites who do the followings:
1- Break the treaty they signed
2- Defame the religion of Islam
3- Expel the prophet from his Islamic land
Wootah wrote:
9:74 If they repent then stop being harsh but if they turn away God will get them.
If they repent from doing the followings:
1- Break the treaty they signed
2- Defame the religion of Islam
3- Expel the prophet from his Islamic land
Wootah wrote:
Your reply is that this verse is for insincere Muslims which are called hypocrites. Well what is a hypocrite that turns away?
Again I explained this many times, go and read sura 9 again, the hypocrites are mentioned 8 times in there, as well hypocrisy is mentioned 3 times.
Wootah wrote:
A really, really big hypocrite? C'mon Ahmed at some point a Muslim that turns away far enough can be called an apostate.
And even so, what we should do to the apostates according to the Quran?
We should leave them untouched unless they defame the religion and in this case they should be dealt with as enemies according to my Golden Rule
Wootah wrote:
I would regard each 3 of these ayat as evidence of the following.
As if your regards have any value after I totally demolished your crap, possibly you want to entertain the dumb kafirs on FFI, which is fair, at the end of the day FFI is a kafir web site designed to attack and defame Islam.
Wootah wrote:
- Muslims don't follow the golden rule.
Of course they do not follow your Barbie golden pinky rule
Muslims should follow my Golden Rule which I based on the Quran and even common laws practiced by most developed countries.
Wootah wrote:
- Muslims are to be harsh with non-Muslims. (Sure not to the Dhimmi's but who wants to be a dhimmi)
Repeating your crap and confusion will not help you, Muslims should be harsh with any group of people who do any of the followings:
1- Break any treaty they signed
2- Defame the religion of Islam
3- Expel the Muslims from his Islamic land
Wootah wrote:
- Non-Muslims have no protection on earth and as such Muslims should not help or assist non-Muslims. Or are you really going to help someone that Allah is wrathing against ....
They will have no protection on earth and on he hereafter from the punishment of Allah by anyone except by Allah
Wootah wrote:
ps: Ahmed you aren't really going to use the sword verse in your defence are you?
What sword verse?
The one in your Bible?
Why not? The sword is mentioned in your Bible at least 400 times, so we have plenty of material with which I can play with you for very long time. Now, how many times the word sword is mentioned in the Quran?
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Sat 13 Mar, 2010 5:24 pm; edited 5 times in total
Posted:
Sat 13 Mar, 2010 4:49 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Please read the previous few comments above first ^^^ starting from this one
And finally one more comment from me to Wootah concerning a question he asked me later:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Talking about shirk is a lot of talk and is totally different subject so I have to dismiss your crap above that is based on an assumed illogical action of forgiveness by a judge that can never happen.
Wootah wrote:
Oh well I still wouldn't mind hearing your opinion. Why is shirk unforgivable? What is the crime?
My opinion is simple and logical:
I believe that humans and all other creatures have absolutely no freewill when it comes to the belief in Allah, the humans and possibly other creatures may have freewill concerning deeds with other creatures, but when it comes to the belief in Allah, there is absolutely no freewill
Now such no freewill (concerning belief) can be enforced in two ways:
1- Willingly
2- Unwillingly
now we know well that unwillingly means no freewill, but I still see the willingly ones have no freewill either, because it is said to them by the same God, if you do not believe willingly then you will be burnt in hell, consequently there is no other option but to believe willingly, and consequently there is no freewill concerning belief for all creatures.
Now, what i said above is certainly stated in the Quran, in addition to that, the Quran also told us that this is why humans were created for by God, TO ONLY WORSHIP HIM, i.e. 100% no freewill,
Imagine now I invented a car and it does not do what I created it for to do, like when I want it to turn right, it turns left and kills someone, likewise with animals and other creatures, for example, I created something from steel that suppose to be tough, yet it breaks all the time, so I end up with something useless that can simply be squashed and replaced by something else useful that does what it is designed for and was created to do
That is my personal opinion and is not debatable btw, you can say your opinion about it but I am not going to reply even if you intimidate me _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Sat 13 Mar, 2010 4:56 pm
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 76 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 614
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Please read the previous few comments above first ^^^ starting from this one
And finally one more comment from me to Wootah concerning a question he asked me later:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Talking about shirk is a lot of talk and is totally different subject so I have to dismiss your crap above that is based on an assumed illogical action of forgiveness by a judge that can never happen.
Wootah wrote:
Oh well I still wouldn't mind hearing your opinion. Why is shirk unforgivable? What is the crime?
My opinion is simple and logical:
I believe that humans and all other creatures have absolutely no freewill when it comes to the belief in Allah, the humans and possibly other creatures may have freewill concerning deeds with other creatures, but when it comes to the belief in Allah, there is absolutely no freewill
Now such no freewill (concerning belief) can be enforced in two ways:
1- Willingly
2- Unwillingly
now we know well that unwillingly means no freewill, but I still see the willingly ones have no freewill either, because it is said to them by the same God, if you do not believe willingly then you will be burnt in hell, consequently there is no other option but to believe willingly, and consequently there is no freewill concerning belief for all creatures.
Now, what i said above is certainly stated in the Quran, in addition to that, the Quran also told us that this is why humans were created for by God, TO ONLY WORSHIP HIM, i.e. 100% no freewill,
Imagine now I invented a car and it does not do what I created it for to do, like when I want it to turn right, it turns left and kills someone, likewise with animals and other creatures, for example, I created something from steel that suppose to be tough, yet it breaks all the time, so I end up with something useless that can simply be squashed and replaced by something else useful that does what it is designed for and was created to do
That is my personal opinion and is not debatable btw, you can say your opinion about it but I am not going to reply even if you intimidate me
Well done, Ahmed
The problem is that most of the polemicists and FFI goons really have no knowledge of Qur'aan at all.
If this poster had read Qur'aan, he would have known of this verse from 4:116
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Wootah wrote:
Ahmed,
Another topic. I noticed someone post about apostates:
Wootah wrote:
4:89 (pickthall) They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,
Wootah wrote:
What does "forsake their homes in the way of Allah".
Again the verse is talking about the hypocrites who claim to be Muslims while they refuse to go to fight with the real Muslims
See the previous verse:
فَمَا لَكُمْ فِي الْمُنَافِقِينَ فِئَتَيْنِ وَاللّهُ أَرْكَسَهُم بِمَا كَسَبُواْ أَتُرِيدُونَ أَن تَهْدُواْ مَنْ أَضَلَّ اللّهُ وَمَن يُضْلِلِ اللّهُ فَلَن تَجِدَ لَهُ سَبِيلاً (88) What is the matter with you, being two parties concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back because of what they have earned? Do you want to guide those whom Allah has misguided? And whomever Allah misguides, then you will not find for him a way. [Al Quran ; 4:88]
-> See pal, when the hypocrites were exposed, refusing to go to war with the Muslims while defending themselves, some Muslims suggested punishing them, while others refused and suggested to give them another chance (sort of, as you know I am only interested in the moral of the story, not the details), so the verse above is criticizing the sincere Muslims for disagreeing on the matter of the hypocrites, by telling them, that they were exposed as hypocrites as a punishment of what they have earned, and you will not be able to guide them back because those who have earned misguidance from Allah will never have way to guidance. (i.e. Allah has power over all things): What is the matter with you, being two parties concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back because of what they have earned? Do you want to guide those whom Allah has misguided? And whomever Allah misguides, then you will not find for him a way.
Let?????????????????????¢??s bring 4:89 in here and read further elaboration concerning those hypocrites fro among the Muslims:
وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء حَتَّىَ يُهَاجِرُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتَّمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَلاَ نَصِيرًا (89) They desire that you would disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so you would be alike; so take not from among them guardians until they emigrate to the way of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any guardian or any helper. [Al Quran ; 4:89]
-> See what the hypocrites wanted: They desire that you would disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so you would be alike; obviously they disbelieved by becoming hypocrites. The hypocrites are promised with the lowest level of hell, i.e. the most severest of punishment in hell, i.e. it is a very bad crime in Islam, yet those hypocrites desired that more Muslims become like them ad refuse to go to war to defend their religion against the perpetrators, so the verse above is warning the sincere Muslims (who disagreed in 4:88 concerning the hypocrites) against them as well commanding them to not to take guardians or protectors from among them (i.e. not to force them to fight defending the religion of Allah which they claim to belong to), yet they were given a chance, that if they accept to fight and defend the religion of Allah, then the sincere Muslims can trust them and consider them guardians and protectors to them: so take not from among them guardians until they emigrate to the way of Allah. , emigration in the way of Allah can also mean and cover a few things including defending His religion against the perpetrators.
Now that is the only chance to give the hypocrites who claim to be Muslims, to immigrate in the way of Allah. Now if they refuse that then, i.e. If they turn away the offer, then then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any guardian or any helper.
So what should be the way out for those hypocrites?
Very simple indeed, they only need to claim that they are apostates and leaving Islam in peace. Period
But to fukin claim to be a Muslim, then knowing that the enemy of Islam are building arms to eliminate the religion and its followers, and you refuse to fight and sit in your arse at home fearing to be killed, then you must e a clear cut hypocrite who should be punished. Let?????????????????????¢??s just consider it as refusing to serve in the army during wars. Like when Muhammed Ali did in Vietnam war. I am not saying that Muhammed Ali was a hypocrite, I am sure he has his reasons which are valid, but just similar action by one who claims to be American then refusing to defend America?????????????????????¢??s concerns in Vietnam.
On the other hand, the Quran gave us some examples of the excuses presented by those hypocrites, which I can show you later, but what is interesting to show you is the next verse in which we read that if those hypocrites conceded that they are not Muslims any more and just want to leave, then fine, see this compelling verse:
إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ يَصِلُونَ إِلَىَ قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُم مِّيثَاقٌ أَوْ جَآؤُوكُمْ حَصِرَتْ صُدُورُهُمْ أَن يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ أَوْ يُقَاتِلُواْ قَوْمَهُمْ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ لَسَلَّطَهُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ فَلَقَاتَلُوكُمْ فَإِنِ اعْتَزَلُوكُمْ فَلَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ وَأَلْقَوْاْ إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ فَمَا جَعَلَ اللّهُ لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سَبِيلاً (90) Except those who take refuge with a people between whom and yourself is a treaty, or those who come to you while their hearts are declining from fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah does not make for you against them a way. [Al Quran ; 4:90]
-> Here is the exception of killing those hypocrites: Except those who take refuge with a people between whom and yourself is a treaty, or those who come to you while their hearts are declining from fighting you or fighting their own people. And here is the compelling part:
So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah does not make for you against them a way.
Bigger for inmate pisscohot:
So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah does not make for you against them a way.
Biggest for inmate pisscohot:
So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah does not make for you against them a way.
Pinkiest for inmate pisscohot:
So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah does not make for you against them a way.
Slam dunking inmate pisscohot:
# 83
Wootah wrote:
Does this mean repent or convert? You offered 4 answers earlier:
No, it means to not to fight in the way of Allah and defend the religion of Allah against the perpetrators while still claiming to be Muslim, they would be better off to claim to be apostates and leave in peace to live somewhere else as stated in 4:90
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Here is all possibilities:
1- One who leaves islam and live his life without defaming Islam (peaceful apostate who should be left alone and even protected)
2- One who leaves islam then work hard to defame the reigion (is not an apostate, rather an eney who be dealt with according to my Golden Rule)
3- One who leaves Islam then claim to be a Muslim (is a hypocrite who can also be peaceful who should be left alone)
4- One who leaves Islam then claim to be a Muslim while working with the enemy to defame the religion and expel the Muslim from their land and refusing to participate with the Muslim in the fight with the enemy(is a hypocrite and an enemy at the same time who should be dealt with accoridngly)
Wootah wrote:
Which of these 4 classes is 4:89 talking about?
They belong to # 4 above. CLEARLY
Wootah wrote:
Is the notion of 'turn away' the same as 'turn back'?
Status: Age: 76 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Wootah wrote:
Ahmed,
Another topic. I noticed someone post about apostates:
Wootah wrote:
4:89 (pickthall) They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,
Wootah wrote:
What does "forsake their homes in the way of Allah".
Again the verse is talking about the hypocrites who claim to be Muslims while they refuse to go to fight with the real Muslims
See the previous verse:
فَمَا لَكُمْ فِي الْمُنَافِقِينَ فِئَتَيْنِ وَاللّهُ أَرْكَسَهُم بِمَا كَسَبُواْ أَتُرِيدُونَ أَن تَهْدُواْ مَنْ أَضَلَّ اللّهُ وَمَن يُضْلِلِ اللّهُ فَلَن تَجِدَ لَهُ سَبِيلاً (8 What is the matter with you, being two parties concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back because of what they have earned? Do you want to guide those whom Allah has misguided? And whomever Allah misguides, then you will not find for him a way. [Al Quran ; 4:88]
-> See pal, when the hypocrites were exposed, refusing to go to war with the Muslims while defending themselves, some Muslims suggested punishing them, while others refused and suggested to give them another chance (sort of, as you know I am only interested in the moral of the story, not the details), so the verse above is criticizing the sincere Muslims for disagreeing on the matter of the hypocrites, by telling them, that they were exposed as hypocrites as a punishment of what they have earned, and you will not be able to guide them back because those who have earned misguidance from Allah will never have way to guidance. (i.e. Allah has power over all things): What is the matter with you, being two parties concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back because of what they have earned? Do you want to guide those whom Allah has misguided? And whomever Allah misguides, then you will not find for him a way.
Let?????????????????????¢??s bring 4:89 in here and read further elaboration concerning those hypocrites fro among the Muslims:
وَدُّواْ لَوْ تَكْفُرُونَ كَمَا كَفَرُواْ فَتَكُونُونَ سَوَاء فَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ أَوْلِيَاء حَتَّىَ يُهَاجِرُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ فَإِن تَوَلَّوْاْ فَخُذُوهُمْ وَاقْتُلُوهُمْ حَيْثُ وَجَدتَّمُوهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ مِنْهُمْ وَلِيًّا وَلاَ نَصِيرًا (89) They desire that you would disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so you would be alike; so take not from among them guardians until they emigrate to the way of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any guardian or any helper. [Al Quran ; 4:89]
-> See what the hypocrites wanted: They desire that you would disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so you would be alike; obviously they disbelieved by becoming hypocrites. The hypocrites are promised with the lowest level of hell, i.e. the most severest of punishment in hell, i.e. it is a very bad crime in Islam, yet those hypocrites desired that more Muslims become like them ad refuse to go to war to defend their religion against the perpetrators, so the verse above is warning the sincere Muslims (who disagreed in 4:88 concerning the hypocrites) against them as well commanding them to not to take guardians or protectors from among them (i.e. not to force them to fight defending the religion of Allah which they claim to belong to), yet they were given a chance, that if they accept to fight and defend the religion of Allah, then the sincere Muslims can trust them and consider them guardians and protectors to them: so take not from among them guardians until they emigrate to the way of Allah. , emigration in the way of Allah can also mean and cover a few things including defending His religion against the perpetrators.
Now that is the only chance to give the hypocrites who claim to be Muslims, to immigrate in the way of Allah. Now if they refuse that then, i.e. If they turn away the offer, then then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any guardian or any helper.
So what should be the way out for those hypocrites?
Very simple indeed, they only need to claim that they are apostates and leaving Islam in peace. Period
But to fukin claim to be a Muslim, then knowing that the enemy of Islam are building arms to eliminate the religion and its followers, and you refuse to fight and sit in your arse at home fearing to be killed, then you must e a clear cut hypocrite who should be punished. Let?????????????????????¢??s just consider it as refusing to serve in the army during wars. Like when Muhammed Ali did in Vietnam war. I am not saying that Muhammed Ali was a hypocrite, I am sure he has his reasons which are valid, but just similar action by one who claims to be American then refusing to defend America?????????????????????¢??s concerns in Vietnam.
On the other hand, the Quran gave us some examples of the excuses presented by those hypocrites, which I can show you later, but what is interesting to show you is the next verse in which we read that if those hypocrites conceded that they are not Muslims any more and just want to leave, then fine, see this compelling verse:
إِلاَّ الَّذِينَ يَصِلُونَ إِلَىَ قَوْمٍ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُم مِّيثَاقٌ أَوْ جَآؤُوكُمْ حَصِرَتْ صُدُورُهُمْ أَن يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ أَوْ يُقَاتِلُواْ قَوْمَهُمْ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ لَسَلَّطَهُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ فَلَقَاتَلُوكُمْ فَإِنِ اعْتَزَلُوكُمْ فَلَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ وَأَلْقَوْاْ إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلَمَ فَمَا جَعَلَ اللّهُ لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِمْ سَبِيلاً (90) Except those who take refuge with a people between whom and yourself is a treaty, or those who come to you while their hearts are declining from fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah does not make for you against them a way. [Al Quran ; 4:90]
-> Here is the exception of killing those hypocrites: Except those who take refuge with a people between whom and yourself is a treaty, or those who come to you while their hearts are declining from fighting you or fighting their own people. And here is the compelling part:
So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah does not make for you against them a way.
Bigger for inmate pisscohot:
So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah does not make for you against them a way.
Biggest for inmate pisscohot:
So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah does not make for you against them a way.
Pinkiest for inmate pisscohot:
So if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah does not make for you against them a way.
Slam dunking inmate pisscohot:
# 83
Wootah wrote:
Does this mean repent or convert? You offered 4 answers earlier:
No, it means to not to fight in the way of Allah and defend the religion of Allah against the perpetrators while still claiming to be Muslim, they would be better off to claim to be apostates and leave in peace to live somewhere else as stated in 4:90
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Here is all possibilities:
1- One who leaves islam and live his life without defaming Islam (peaceful apostate who should be left alone and even protected)
2- One who leaves islam then work hard to defame the reigion (is not an apostate, rather an eney who be dealt with according to my Golden Rule)
3- One who leaves Islam then claim to be a Muslim (is a hypocrite who can also be peaceful who should be left alone)
4- One who leaves Islam then claim to be a Muslim while working with the enemy to defame the religion and expel the Muslim from their land and refusing to participate with the Muslim in the fight with the enemy(is a hypocrite and an enemy at the same time who should be dealt with accoridngly)
Wootah wrote:
Which of these 4 classes is 4:89 talking about?
They belong to # 4 above. CLEARLY
Wootah wrote:
Is the notion of 'turn away' the same as 'turn back'?
Sort of,
Walla = turn away
Walla Zahrahu = turn away while showing his back
Simply: Reject something.
Hello, Ahmed
Mate that was not only a Slam Dunk but you really pissed both of them out so well.
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